Comments on: Divination in the Old Testament http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/ don't just ask google - email your question today! Fri, 20 Apr 2012 22:10:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Jon the freelance theologian http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/comment-page-1/#comment-61740 Jon the freelance theologian Fri, 20 Apr 2012 22:10:34 +0000 http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/#comment-61740 That's an interesting question. I will look into it and post an answer on freelance theology at some point. That’s an interesting question. I will look into it and post an answer on freelance theology at some point.

]]> By: Michael Clausen http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/comment-page-1/#comment-60626 Michael Clausen Thu, 05 Apr 2012 12:50:38 +0000 http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/#comment-60626 My question is along the same lines as this, only I am curious about the cup of Joseph (OT) that he had placed in Benjamin's bag when they were going back to Israel (Person). In the text it says that this cup was used by Joseph for divination. Now we know from the story of Joseph that he was skilled in understanding messages from God through the translation of dreams, however there is no statements about other uses of determining the will of God. This of course was many years before the Levitical ban on divination, so my question is, since "Let all men be liars but God's Word remain true", since divination is declared as sinful in Leviticus, is there a translation error in the text with regard to Joseph's cup, or is there some other message here? Please understand, I am asking for knowledge and understanding sake, and by no means am I trying to "stir the pot" or defend divination as a practice. I have recently become aware of a few things that have been perceived as error by people who would deny the validity of the bible, but just never bothered to look up the definition of words in the dictionary. For example the command to "subdue" the earth being taken as bend to your will, does not fit with the rest of the commands of God throughout the bible with regard to how we are to tend "the garden", but if you look in the dictionary there is a definition of the word that means "to know" (very abbreviated on my part, suggest looking up for full understanding of my point). So my question, based on this and other similar things, is simply is there a similar issue at work with regard to divination? My question is along the same lines as this, only I am curious about the cup of Joseph (OT) that he had placed in Benjamin’s bag when they were going back to Israel (Person). In the text it says that this cup was used by Joseph for divination. Now we know from the story of Joseph that he was skilled in understanding messages from God through the translation of dreams, however there is no statements about other uses of determining the will of God. This of course was many years before the Levitical ban on divination, so my question is, since “Let all men be liars but God’s Word remain true”, since divination is declared as sinful in Leviticus, is there a translation error in the text with regard to Joseph’s cup, or is there some other message here? Please understand, I am asking for knowledge and understanding sake, and by no means am I trying to “stir the pot” or defend divination as a practice. I have recently become aware of a few things that have been perceived as error by people who would deny the validity of the bible, but just never bothered to look up the definition of words in the dictionary. For example the command to “subdue” the earth being taken as bend to your will, does not fit with the rest of the commands of God throughout the bible with regard to how we are to tend “the garden”, but if you look in the dictionary there is a definition of the word that means “to know” (very abbreviated on my part, suggest looking up for full understanding of my point). So my question, based on this and other similar things, is simply is there a similar issue at work with regard to divination?

]]> By: Barbara White http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/comment-page-1/#comment-1344 Barbara White Sat, 21 Aug 2010 05:00:26 +0000 http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/#comment-1344 The Bible says "seek and you will find" so I will prayerfully and diligently search for an answer and the promise is that I will find it. Will let you know where all this leads me. The Bible says “seek and you will find” so I will prayerfully and diligently search for an answer and the promise is that I will find it. Will let you know where all this leads me.

]]> By: Jon the freelance theologian http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/comment-page-1/#comment-1317 Jon the freelance theologian Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:38:14 +0000 http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/#comment-1317 That would be the challenge. The prescriptions against sorcery were precisely for that reason - following the 'guidance' of something other than God took glory away from God i.e. they were idolatry. As to what influences the pendulum, many people would be sceptical that anything exerted an influence. Some Christians would no doubt ascribe a negative spiritual influence of some sort, because that's often the sort of thing that happens. That would be the challenge. The prescriptions against sorcery were precisely for that reason – following the ‘guidance’ of something other than God took glory away from God i.e. they were idolatry.

As to what influences the pendulum, many people would be sceptical that anything exerted an influence. Some Christians would no doubt ascribe a negative spiritual influence of some sort, because that’s often the sort of thing that happens.

]]> By: Barbara White http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/comment-page-1/#comment-1278 Barbara White Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:28:37 +0000 http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/#comment-1278 Thank you for your comments. I am a christian and certainly do not want to do the wrong thing or be associated with the occult. I considered using the pendulum in this way in a similar way to urim and thummim, I guess and do not in any way want to take the glory away from God. I suppose the real answers needed is from where does the pendulum get its knowlege/what power moves it. Thank you for your comments. I am a christian and certainly do not want to do the wrong thing or be associated with the occult. I considered using the pendulum in this way in a similar way to urim and thummim, I guess and do not in any way want to take the glory away from God. I suppose the real answers needed is from where does the pendulum get its knowlege/what power moves it.

]]> By: Jon the freelance theologian http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/comment-page-1/#comment-1205 Jon the freelance theologian Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:17:37 +0000 http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/#comment-1205 Looking at the Old Testament texts, I think the prohibition on divination would cover that sort of thing too. In a sense, seeking otherwise unknowable information, whether about the future or about other aspects of good fortune like favourable planting conditions, is precisely what the writers were describing. The theological reason behind the prohibition (trusting in God rather than human 'wisdom') would be consistent. Having said that, many of the prohibitions against 'magic' were culture-specific in a world that was often dominated by shamans and magicians. Much of the tribal religion around the Hebrews while in exile, and later the nation of Israel, was oriented towards magical religious practices. Things are different these days. However there is still an aversion among Christians to practices like this because it seems occult, which conflicts with the idea of only worshipping or giving glory to God. (Although whether you could use a pendulum in a similar way to the urim and thummim or how lots were cast to divine God's will in the Old Testament is worth thinking about.) I'm not sure how effective using a pendulum in your gardening is. I don't know anyone who prays before planting, but I guess there probably are some who feel 'guided' to plant certain plants in certain places. Certainly Jesus used plants in his parables a few times. Maybe there's scope for an article on Bible-inspired gardening. Looking at the Old Testament texts, I think the prohibition on divination would cover that sort of thing too. In a sense, seeking otherwise unknowable information, whether about the future or about other aspects of good fortune like favourable planting conditions, is precisely what the writers were describing. The theological reason behind the prohibition (trusting in God rather than human ‘wisdom’) would be consistent.

Having said that, many of the prohibitions against ‘magic’ were culture-specific in a world that was often dominated by shamans and magicians. Much of the tribal religion around the Hebrews while in exile, and later the nation of Israel, was oriented towards magical religious practices.

Things are different these days. However there is still an aversion among Christians to practices like this because it seems occult, which conflicts with the idea of only worshipping or giving glory to God. (Although whether you could use a pendulum in a similar way to the urim and thummim or how lots were cast to divine God’s will in the Old Testament is worth thinking about.)

I’m not sure how effective using a pendulum in your gardening is. I don’t know anyone who prays before planting, but I guess there probably are some who feel ‘guided’ to plant certain plants in certain places. Certainly Jesus used plants in his parables a few times. Maybe there’s scope for an article on Bible-inspired gardening.

]]> By: Barbara White http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/comment-page-1/#comment-1137 Barbara White Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:59:12 +0000 http://freelancetheology.com/2009/09/20/divination-in-the-old-testament/#comment-1137 What about usaing a pendulum to dowse. Not asking about the future, but simple physical things like does this plant need such and such a mineral, should I plant it here etc What about usaing a pendulum to dowse. Not asking about the future, but simple physical things like does this plant need such and such a mineral, should I plant it here etc

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